MAJOR Google Places Update – 3rd Party Reviews and Citations Removed from Counts
Hang onto your seats! I have a feeling we are in for a wild ride!
There is a MAJOR Google Places update underway right now and MANY new changes keep showing up, so it’s not over with yet.
UPDATE 7/23/11 9 AM – Posted this in comments yesterday but wanted to highlight it up here as well. MANY other important insights are in comments so read below too. PLUS I have a TON of new info about all of this, so will be doing a new post today or Monday.
Good news! From what I can tell so far this was ONLY a front end cosmetic change NOT a back end change that affects the algo or ranking.
In some quick ranking checks I did Thursday night, it appears the lack of 3rd party reviews showing up in the count DID NOT affect rankings. Not in the rankings I’ve checked anyway. Regardless of how many 3rd reviews were removed from the COUNT everyone’s ranking stayed the same.
So I think DemandForce, Yelp, TripAdvisor and other reviews still totally count in the algo as far as rankings go. Google is just not showing them in the main review count in the SERPs or showing them in what used to be the 3rd party reviews section of the Place page.
So from what I’m seeing right now anyway, this does not devalue 3rd party review sources in terms of how much it helps with the rankings. Other reviews are still counted in the back end!
ALSO the citation section of the Place page is gone now. BUT all citations still count in the ranking, just as they did before. Plus the additional details no longer show on the Place page but Vanessa says they still weigh into the algo. More on all that later…
CONTINUED from July 21st – The most important change is the way Google counts and shows 3rd party reviews. I’ll use Dentistry as an example of how much this is going to shake up just ONE industry. Search for San Francisco Dentist. Most of the Dentists in the top results have over 50 reviews. 2 of them had over 200 reviews due to DemandForce. Now Google is only showing 0 – 5 reviews for most of them in the main review count above the Place page link. I just called my friend and who’s in charge of Google integration at DemandForce to find out how they are weathering this storm and we compared notes.
Think about industries like hotels who have 500+ reviews from Trip Advisor, Yelp, City Search et all. Or restaurants and all their 3rd party reviews. One other change is the addition of a new big red “Write a Review” button on Place pages (which is great!). The message is clear. Google wants to own the reviews market and this is a bold step in that direction! Here’s a link to the official Google blog regarding the update, but see more commentary below.
Google LatLong: The Ongoing Evolution of Place Pages
Based on careful thought about the future direction of Place pages, and feedback we’ve heard over the past few months, review snippets from other web sources have now been removed from Place pages. Rating and review counts reflect only those that’ve been written by fellow Google users, and as part of our continued commitment to helping you find what you want on the web, we’re continuing to provide links to other review sites so you can get a comprehensive view of locations across the globe.
So while it’s clear Google is putting more emphasis on their own reviews now. What isn’t crystal clear to me yet is all the changes will affect rankings.
As of right now (subject to change on a whim) 3rd party reviews seem to not be counted in the SERPS and they don’t show up in the main count at the top of your Place page. (They do show in light gray, just aren’t part of the main obvious count patients are used to seeing.) I work directly with other top industry experts and we are trying to determine if this review change is affecting ranking or or only the number of reviews that show in the count. Also trying to determine if there was an algo change or just a data/display change.
I’ve only had time to check one clients rankings so far. I had just taken from #16 to #2 on Sunday by doing SEO on his web site, which was great! But then today in addition to all these other changes Google changed the SERPs in his market from “blended” to 7 pack. That algo depends (or used to) more on the number of reviews and he doesn’t have any yet.
Just wanted to post a quick update so no one would panic they saw a big ranking drop, a review drop or if they started experiencing problems with your Place page. It could be a bumpy ride over the next few days. Normally when Google does a major update like this, things break. There were a few new major bugs the past few days I’ve been working with Google on. Now I think now they could have all been due to the update we are starting to see today. Will post updates later as I decipher all the changes.
Here are links to other places that are discussing the changes.
Google Places Testing New Layout
Google Places Search No Longer Showing 3rd Party Review Counts?
Google Places Stops Stealing Reviews – TechCrunch
Here are a few quick notes about cosmetic/data change to Place pages: New big red “Write a Review” button (which is great!). Citations and the more about this Place section appear to be gone. I think the more details section is gone as well.
Check your Place Page and note below if you find anything else that’s missing or added.
Did you lose reviews? Did your ranking also change?
I’m comparing notes with several pros on various blogs, private chat rooms and mastermind groups. We are trying to document and figure out all the changes.
I’ll say it again. It could be a bumpy ride. Fasten. Seat. Belts.
I need to go do some deep breathing or something.
Stay tuned for updates.
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#1 MAJOR Google Places Update – 3rd Party Reviews and Citations Removed or De-Emphasized | Google Places Optimization News and Tips | Scoop.it wrote on July 21, 2011 :
[...] MAJOR Google Places Update – 3rd Party Reviews and Citations Removed or De-Emphasized There is a MAJOR Google Places update underway right now and MANY new changes keep showing up, so it's not over with yet. 3rd party reviews are no longer being counted in Google search or on Place pages. Citations on Place pages are gone too. Not sure if rankings and or algo have changed yet. I'll say it again. It could be a bumpy ride. Fasten. Seat. Belts. Source: marketing-blog.catalystemarketing.com [...]
#2 Dan wrote on July 21, 2011 :
Sigh…..here we go again, and again…and again…and again…and again. Just when I was starting to get some stubs growing back on my head.
I just did a search for “Rogaine in New York” and got results for Wigs for sale…with a review from some guy in California, with a downloaded image of a bald eagle……perhaps that’s this is the way to go……then I could just bury my bald be-wigged head in the sand and await the next “Google Improvement” for Places..and tell my clients to stand by…changes are in the wind again…fasten your seat belt……
#3 nigedo wrote on July 21, 2011 :
Thanks for the heads up Linda. Keep us informed.
#4 Chris wrote on July 21, 2011 :
Linda,
Great article! I wonder if Google started to take notice of the 100s of 5 star reviews per each DF client. Maybe the credibility started to tarnish.
#5 Linda Buquet wrote on July 21, 2011 :
LOL Dan. I know what you mean!
I just finally threw up my hands and took a break. Watched the Dating Game.
I needed some mindless enterainment and needed to laugh at someone else’s drama so I could forget about mine for awhile!
OK back to work to try to catch up on everyone’s opinions and any new discoveries. Change sucks!
#6 Linda Buquet wrote on July 21, 2011 :
@Chris, I know you and I focus on Dental, so could be easy to think that, but it’s much bigger.
Hotels for instance lost hundreds of reviews from many sources. I only had time for a really quick skim of the Techcrunch article but I’m guessing that shined some light about some of the real motives for this, like the antitrust problems.
Plus G is always in the competitive position of trying to outdo sites like Yelp etc. One way to get themselves to the point where they can say “my review bank is bigger than your review bank” is to make a bold move like they just made!
#7 MiriamEllis wrote on July 22, 2011 :
Hey Linda,
I think the antitrust theory is a really good one (per the TechCrunch piece), and I also think that if Google seriously wants to become a major player in the review world, they have got to get the bugs worked out of their review system. Reviews are all Yelp does. Google’s got a million things on its collective mind. Can they compete, realistically, with reviews being just one more thing on their plate? It sure will be interesting to see!
Meanwhile…all of us who have told clients not to put all their review eggs in one basket had better make sure Google is at least in the basket. The complexity of their review system (and attendant bugs) has been a real turnoff for many.
#8 Carl B wrote on July 22, 2011 :
I am seeing more 7 packs for sure, my clients listings have held rankings, why i don’t exactly know yet …
#9 Articles from Around the Web on the New Places Layout | Understanding Google Maps & Local Search wrote on July 22, 2011 :
[...] MAJOR Google Places Update – 3rd Party Reviews and Citations Removed or De-Emphasized - Linda Buquet’s take on the impact of reducing 3rd party review counts vis a vis dentists (and Demand Force) [...]
#10 MAJOR Google Places Update – 3rd Party Reviews and Citations Removed or De-Emphasized | Lokale Suche News | Scoop.it wrote on July 22, 2011 :
[...] MAJOR Google Places Update – 3rd Party Reviews and Citations Removed or De-Emphasized There is a MAJOR Google Places update underway right now and MANY new changes keep showing up, so it’s not over with yet. Source: marketing-blog.catalystemarketing.com [...]
#11 Changes in Google Places and Reviews – What Does it Mean? | Understanding Google Maps & Local Search wrote on July 22, 2011 :
[...] change again. Truth be told we don’t really know what the winds signify anyways. If you were only getting reviews from one source (like Demand Force) you really need to assess your practices and develop a plan to [...]
#12 Google Places Gains New Ally in Review Battle with Yelp | Understanding Google Maps & Local Search wrote on July 22, 2011 :
[...] the change should affect SMBs’ review management plans, it will do just that. Companies that saw their display count drop from 250 to 5 on the front page of Google will shift their efforts to [...]
#13 Canadian SEO | Local Canadian SEO | Hamilton SEO|CanuckSEO.com wrote on July 22, 2011 :
[...] Linda Buquet here… [...]
#14 Linda Buquet wrote on July 22, 2011 :
Miriam you SO hit the nail on the head on multiple counts!
I recently did Advanced Google Places training for a SEO company. They were SO excited to leave me a Google review after we finished. They’ve tried and tried and emailed me 3 times saying they can’t leave a review and don’t know what’s wrong. THEY ARE MARKETERS and can’t figure it out!
What’s worse is I specialize in GP and have not had time to figure it out yet. Don’t really deal with the review side much.
Pity the poor consumer than G is targeting for reviews.
They NEED to make it work and work right!
#15 Linda Buquet wrote on July 22, 2011 :
At this point my opinion is as follows (subject to change on a whim, just like Google!)
Good news! From what I can tell this was ONLY a front end cosmetic change NOT a backend change that affects ranking.
In some quick ranking checks I did last night, it appears the lack of 3rd party reviews showing up in the count DID NOT affect rankings. Not in the rankings I’ve checked anyway. Regardless of how many 3rd reviews were removed from the COUNT everyone’s ranking stayed the same.
So I think DemandForce, Yelp and other reviews still totally count in the algo as far as rankings go. Google is just not showing them in the main review count or showing them in what used to be the 3rd party reviews section of the Place page.
So from what I’m seeing right now anyway, this does not devalue 3rd party review sources in terms of how much it helps with the rankings. Other reviews are still counted in the back end!
ALSO the citation section of the Place page is gone now. BUT all citations still count in the ranking, just as they did before.
Here are some of my early thoughts, subject to change as I digest and get more info from others.
G has been getting flack, lawsuits and has had complaints for years about what they used to do, which is essentially IMO stealing content in the form of reviews from other sites. There was a big to-do awhile back where Trip Advisor prevented G from stealing their reviews to display on Google for Google’s own gain. TechCrunch thinks this is about the antitrust problems Google has been having too. Their post talks about both issues: http://techcrunch.com/2011/07/21/google-places-stops-stealing-reviews/
But more than anything in the “my review database is bigger than your review database” game they play with Yelp – this was a very smart move! It will force more businesses to focus on building G reviews.
I also think some of the Place Page changes are designed to clean out info they feel is not as important, so they can make room on the Place page for the new Google+ business profiles which I believe will integrate with the Place page.
My 2 cents so far. Just woke up. May have more thoughts as I do more research.
#16 Tradutor Ingles wrote on July 22, 2011 :
All I can say is that this does not apply to other countries, at least where I am (Brazil), since third party reviews are not shown anyway in Google Places.
#17 Linda Buquet wrote on July 22, 2011 :
Vanessa just posted this important update in the forum:
“Seeing a lot of questions in the forum, let me just clarify a couple things about the new Place pages. The following info you provide may not appear on your Place page, but it’s all still used to help us understand more about your business:
• Email address
• Menu
• Reservations
• Optional attributes / Additional details
• Service area toggle “Show service area”
So just because we’re not showing it, doesn’t mean it’s not helpful for us to have — it helps our system ensure that your organic listing appears and ranks appropriately on Google and Google Maps when potential customers perform searches related to your service.
For more info about ranking, check out this blog post:
http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2010/12/how-local-search-ranking-works.html
Hope this helps,
Vanessa”
#18 Sean wrote on July 22, 2011 :
Great info in this post and in these comments. We’re all holding our collective breaths to see if it fact this is a citations doomsday vs. a cosmetic shift. Anecdotally feels like the latter as has been stated by others, but the jury’s still out at this point for many of us.
Sean
#19 Calgary Dentures wrote on July 23, 2011 :
I am working on a new website for a Calgary Denture clinic and have been looking at the value of reviews. I guess for now I will focus only on G reviews and ignore all the others.
#20 Jo Shaer wrote on July 23, 2011 :
Linda, I posted this over on Blumenthal’s also but I wanted to get your view on it.
Months ago I read somewhere that Google might be thinking about changing the weighting of the algo to ensure that relevant local businesses found it easier to rank above the large number of citation/local listing directories on the front page.
Do you think these recent changes might be a precursor to that sort of shift?
Unlike many Google changes, the UK has been included in the roll out of this at the same time as the US so I guess they mean business and it’s not just a test. I do like that it’s going to be much easier for clients to leave a review now.
The one thing that would be nicer would be a dedicated url to which to send them to the Places Page rather than the current long-winded search based link… but I guess that may be solved with Google+ Business Pages…?
#21 Linda Buquet wrote on July 23, 2011 :
@Calgary Dentures et all – Review review strategy
DON’T PUT ALL YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET – NOT EVEN GOOGLE’S
Keep in mind Google LOSES it’s own reviews OFTEN. There are threads and threads and threads in the Google forum from folks who have worked for YEARS to build up their G reviews and lost them!
If you focus all your efforts on building up mainly G reviews and she loses them all, then you’re screwed in the rankings.
So I think some diversification is still wise.
BEST STRATEGY IMO – Get a good enough number of reviews in Google to look competitive in the SERPs (based on that client’s market), then start offering customers a choice of G and 2 other review sources, to safeguard rankings.
After you have your base of reviews on G I think it’s also best from the USER perspective to offer links to 3 of your profiles on the best review sources for that industry. It’s hard enough to get reviews as it is. So don’t make customers jump through hoops. If they DON’T have a G account set up but they are a big Yelper, let them give you a Yelp review.
#22 Linda Buquet wrote on July 23, 2011 :
Hi Jo,
Saw your comment over at Mikes, thanks for asking here as well. Sorry I don’t know. Had not heard of the possible shift you are referring to. Yes a short link will be nice. Maybe they will embed their new short link eventually.
#23 Jo Shaer wrote on July 23, 2011 :
Hi Linda
Still, very grateful to find you and Mike providing so much help as we attempt to navigate the murky waters of Google Places. It’s even tougher for us Brits because we see lovely shiny stuff happening for you guys but, invariably, we don’t have it over here until some weeks after – if at all in the case of Google QR Codes
I guess I should look on the bright side since at least you guys can iron out all the problems and explain how it works best 
Cant even remember where I saw it, Im afraid – probably someone just hypothesising but it was a lovely thought whilst it lasted
With Best Wishes
jo
#24 David wrote on July 24, 2011 :
Your article mentioned that you talked with the integration manager at DemandForce to see how they were weathering the changes, but you didn’t tell us how they responded.
I’ve been to a number of trade shows where the execs at Demand Force were selling their product based on a special relationship with a goog exec that allowed them to have a direct feed to gp. Live by the sword… you get the rest. In great words of Rowdy Burns from Days of Thunder, “You run good, now go get your own car and we’ll see how you do in a crowd!”
#25 Linda Buquet wrote on July 24, 2011 :
We talked right after the changes took place, so we were just comparing notes and speculating. So nothing substantive to report, plus if there were I would not share a confidential conversation in public.
#26 Google Places July Update Aftermath – Important Insights After the Dust Settles - Google Places Optimization Blog wrote on July 25, 2011 :
[...] MAJOR Google Places Update – 3rd Party Reviews and Citations Removed from Counts – My original post right after the update. [...]
#27 Why Details in Google Places Pages Should Be Essential Content. | GEO Local SEO wrote on July 26, 2011 :
[...] descriptions missing is just a bug still being worked on. But also MIA, and likely for good are “more about this place” citations, 3rd party reviews, even email addresses, service areas, menus and other additional details fields. What is all this? [...]
#28 Law Firm Marketing - Lawyer Marketing - LexisNexis - Lawyers.com wrote on July 27, 2011 :
[...] In the last 9 months there has been a emphasis on Google Places and it's presence on the Search Engines. More and more people are using Google Places as their new phonebook. There is a great article talking about the updates to Google Places [...]
#29 Matthew Hunt wrote on July 28, 2011 :
Linda,
I like the new changes with less focus on 3rd party reviews. It’s clean and easier to digest as a user…. so I get it.
As for the antitrust…. who knows. I not sure that’s the cause for the change.
I still think 3rd party review sites are of value and it’s important to get reviews in your niche’s review sites. However, since Google places listings show up in the SERPs small businesses do need to make sure they get at least 5 reviews or more on GP so they can get those awesome 5 golden stars next to their listing.
I really liked Mike’s post too. I thought he nailed it.
#30 Red Hat Local SEO – How to Make your 3rd Party Google Places Reviews Stand Out - Google Places Optimization Blog wrote on September 21, 2011 :
[...] review sites you likely felt the pain when Google dropped or de-emphasized those reviews due to the July 21st Google Places update. For example many Dentists I know are on DemandForce and had over 100 reviews. After the [...]
#31 Phoenix wrote on December 24, 2011 :
Google can be so annoying I had 19 reviews and 8 google reviews, now we only have the google reviews left.
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